tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post5385421225254847933..comments2024-03-27T19:05:25.362-07:00Comments on Nationals Baseball: Trade Deadline talkHarperhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07738813756060133236noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-13754546123930728982016-08-03T07:22:40.249-07:002016-08-03T07:22:40.249-07:00I can get behind that sentiment, Dusty's Tooth...I can get behind that sentiment, Dusty's Toothpick (also - blog names FTW).<br /><br />If Bryce becomes BRYCE this Fall and carries this squad in the playoffs, nobody will care much that his whole summer was pretty brutal. Unfortunately on the flip side, I can say with certainty that if Stras has a mediocre playoff run, the naysayers will crush him and forget every bit of his sensational regular season. <br /><br />The microscope of the playoffs is a harsh bedfellow that comes with success...WiredHKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-40740102905775411502016-08-03T06:58:44.420-07:002016-08-03T06:58:44.420-07:00Honestly I think everyone is being a little spoile...Honestly I think everyone is being a little spoiled in regards to the Melancon deal. Melancon is an all star closer!!! His cutter/slider is nasty, nasty. I would have liked a bat too but if we have Trea becoming a star in front of our eyes and Harper can play to a .265 clip and hit some clutch homers like we know he can then look out for the Nats. I too like the Nats approach albeit a bit conservative but our team is always good and can hang with the best. This year we push through the 1st round!!!!!!! 14-1 and 10-4 are good scores. If we can sweep the Indians this time around we are really cooking. Dusty's Toothpickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10676402515363795870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-46188218970435950212016-08-03T06:37:11.696-07:002016-08-03T06:37:11.696-07:00I personally don't get the mindset that someon...I personally don't get the mindset that someone would rather win a championship and have multiple years of terrible performance, rather than be good every year but not win a championship. But that's also because I really can't re-watch sporting events. Clearly people are more than entitled to feel that way, it's just not something I can relate to. I just want to watch my team play good baseball as many times a year as possible, and the more that happens the better year I'm having (the happier I am for longer stretches of the year). You play to win yes, but not just play to win one game. At least that's my opinion.<br /><br />I just don't see who would have improved the Nats beyond Miller and the price for him was really high. Maybe Pearce, but that's likely a bench player for the Nats. That's of the players moved. I mean clearly there are many players out there that could help that weren't moved, but of the players moved, I just don't see who the Nats missed out on.<br /><br />JWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-84482227418284314202016-08-03T05:55:42.542-07:002016-08-03T05:55:42.542-07:00I am happy they did not give up the top prospects ...I am happy they did not give up the top prospects for a rental of Chapman. Plus, I do not think we want that sort of character baggage he carries. I would have been ok with them sacrificing a few of them for Miller. In hindsight, I would have taken the Melancon deal over what it would have taken for Miller. Even more so if they can resign him. <br /><br />It would have been a lot more exciting to grab a bigger bat to fill first base. To a lesser extent, an outfielder. Trea gave them flexibility to go either way. <br /><br />the interesting thing will be to see how they stack up in a series against the Giants and/or Cubs. They will have to earn it.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100053950570989568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-12909274969994847122016-08-03T04:11:09.451-07:002016-08-03T04:11:09.451-07:00I have to agree with "build solid teams and b...I have to agree with "build solid teams and be competitive for a long time" side of the debate. Also, riffing off of what Richard Parker said above,I'd like to switch the script of "like the Braves" to "like the Cardinals"...who over the past 10 years seem to have an endless supply of quality players from their farm system, were competitive for many year, AND actually won some championships! steven hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08217945229037259663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-29678782457912578232016-08-02T22:33:24.679-07:002016-08-02T22:33:24.679-07:00" I think it works great... if the Nats can w...<br />" I think it works great... if the Nats can win a title. But when you don't it wears on you. I mention the Braves and we all know how at the end they couldn't even fill up the stadium for playoff games. Some fans just appreciate the game and winning teams is enough. But most want something more and if they haven't won anything by say 2020, will they still care about good?"<br /><br />The Caps have still sold out almost every game since Ovechkin and Co. made the playoffs back in 2008, despite the playoff disappointments. Put a good team out there and people will come with or without championships, at least in DC. Not the same in New York, obviously. The fans there are spoiled brats.<br /><br />Richard Parkernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-67272367430298132452016-08-02T22:25:29.266-07:002016-08-02T22:25:29.266-07:00What you're forgetting, Harper, is that in the...What you're forgetting, Harper, is that in the second half of the season the Nats have added, besides Melancon, 1) possibly the second-half MVP in Trea Turner and 2) a potentially important cog in the machine with Wilmer Difo. How much did they have to give up this year for those two guys?Richard Parkernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-32901810243510844052016-08-02T18:36:22.081-07:002016-08-02T18:36:22.081-07:00Being a "doom & gloomer" is a cheap ...Being a "doom & gloomer" is a cheap way to feel smart - because baseball will pretty much always break your heart. As Bart Giamatti said, it's designed to break your heart. So for 29 of 30 teams, just leaning on the "DOOM!" button is the play that's pretty much guaranteed to pay off. And when it does you get to say "see? SEE?! I TOLD YOU!" <br /><br />My theorem is that this is one reason (along with the fact that humans strongly tend to be risk averse and that we tend to feel/remember pain more than we do an equivalent amount of pleasure) that fans trend so strongly to the doom & gloom end of the spectrum. Which is OK, by the way. We all find ways to get what we need out of the game.John C.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-56396728742964693482016-08-02T17:45:44.593-07:002016-08-02T17:45:44.593-07:00For when the doom n gloomers turn out to be right ...For when the doom n gloomers turn out to be right and we flame out in the postseason again.Zimmerman11https://www.blogger.com/profile/14524103974207323535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-80022162030894023882016-08-02T17:44:31.353-07:002016-08-02T17:44:31.353-07:00Some Bats in This List of 2017 FAs:
1. Cespedes
2...Some Bats in This List of 2017 FAs:<br />1. Cespedes <br />2. Joey Bats<br />3. Reddick<br />4. Jansen<br />5. EE<br />6. Fowler<br />7. Chapman<br />8. Walker<br />9. Rich Hill<br />10. Trumbo<br />11. RamosZimmerman11https://www.blogger.com/profile/14524103974207323535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-62689614766245655852016-08-02T14:40:53.082-07:002016-08-02T14:40:53.082-07:00We leave any bullets in the clip for tonight after...We leave any bullets in the clip for tonight after that drubbing vs AZ? Hopefully we score enough runs to back Max n Tanner tonight and tomorrow.<br /><br />Zimmerman11https://www.blogger.com/profile/14524103974207323535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-5874029158132085692016-08-02T14:12:56.273-07:002016-08-02T14:12:56.273-07:00I guess my biggest disappointment is the fact that...I guess my biggest disappointment is the fact that we still have K-spinosa. Rizzo decided to not trade him while his value was high. Now danny's reverted to form and become the black hole in the lineup again...prolesteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00019936524953314557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-47051056888607579172016-08-02T14:00:43.743-07:002016-08-02T14:00:43.743-07:00I don't think anyone is saying the trade deadl...I don't think anyone is saying the trade deadline was a failure or that the 2011 - present Nats are a disappointment. For me, I would have just liked them to be a little bit more All In. We don't need to trade our untouchables (Turner, Ross, Giolito, Lopez, Robles) to do something that could improve our "chances" of success. I'm not saying there is a direct correlation between a move and post season success, I'm just saying let's make a reasonable move THIS YEAR to improve our chances. The Os got Steve Pearce for a bag of balls. How did we miss on that move? Maybe there's information out there we (fans) don't have access to, but on it's face it is puzzling we did not do more before the trade deadline.Chas Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00306056671418831755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-72825608851259925672016-08-02T13:58:29.192-07:002016-08-02T13:58:29.192-07:00The only constant in WS winners is that winners wi...The only constant in WS winners is that winners win, clutch guys are clutchy, goofy guys don't worry about the pressure of past team failures. WS winners don't strike out at bat, rather they just put the ball in play and see what happens. They manufacture runs, or hit big homeruns. Their pitching staff strikes everyone out or get groundball double plays. <br /><br />In other words, it's a crapshoot. Hopefully this year they can have "it" and win a playoff series or two.Jaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-65802642073293171622016-08-02T13:07:29.965-07:002016-08-02T13:07:29.965-07:00@Jay: The only real problem with that is, we have...@Jay: The only real problem with that is, we have no idea if Bryce can play CF. Having him learn the position on the fly while slotting in a probably bad defender next to him is going to take away a lot from the added value of the bat. But as you say, we probably weren't going to get a guy whose bat and/or glove *are* worth the risk.<br /><br />@John C. Try being someone who's been a fan since 1980 when they were still in Montreal! Believe you me, I am very, very happy with 2012-2016 overall, much as I'd have preferred better playoff outcomes; these have been my most enjoyable years as a fan of this team.<br />DezoPenguinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-82743912108112527502016-08-02T12:41:34.973-07:002016-08-02T12:41:34.973-07:00I think it works great... if the Nats can win a ti...<i>I think it works great... if the Nats can win a title. But when you don't it wears on you.</i><br /><br />You think that wears on you? Just imagine rooting for a team that sucks for a while, gets decent, pushes all its chips into WINNING NOW!!!! ... and fails. Which most trade deadline deals do, incidentally. We remember the ones that work, because they get huge play throughout the relevant postseason. No one cares about the acquisitions of Carlos Gomez, Andrew Miller (O's edition), etc.<br /><br />From 2006-2010, the Nats <i>averaged</i> 96 losses a season. From 2012-2016, the Nats are well on their way to averaging over 92 wins a season. Hell, it's arguable that being <i>less</i> good in 2012 and 2014 would have been better, if they'd found a way to be just a bit better in 2013 and 2015. Then they could have had two more shots at the postseason lottery!<br /><br />Because as anyone who pays attention knows, there really isn't a way to playoff-proof your baseball team. Baseball history, certainly over the past 50 years in the expansion/divisional era, tells you that being the better team pretty much means jack when it comes to short series baseball. But every year we look at the results and reverse engineer a rationale for "why it happened." Even though, when you step back and look at the years, the rationale mysteriously shifts from team to team.John C.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-75120716494245730752016-08-02T12:35:40.603-07:002016-08-02T12:35:40.603-07:00@prolestes (last thread) - I understand why Lucroy...@prolestes (last thread) - I understand why Lucroy would obviously want to get out of the team-friendly team option. My point was that it didn't make sense because the Brewers weren't going to waive the option if he stayed, so why make that a deal breaker for leaving? Unless he really really likes Milwaukee and hates Cleveland. Also, if waiving the option was a prerequisite to his being traded, then the Brewers had no incentive to trade him - just keep him, exercise the option, and trade him next year for the same value (rental). Also, I haven't read any indication that the Rangers waived the option. I think you get the idea. Not saying it's wrong, but it makes no sense. Methinks he didn't want to go to Cleveland and used it as an excuse.<br />___<br />I generally agree with the sentiment on this thread that an organization is best off by sustaining success and making as many playoff appearances over a 5, 10, 20 year span as possible. That being said, a World Series does cure all ills, so you want to do *something* to increase your chances during your window. Even if, technically, your chances of winning a World Series over the long run is (probably) greatest by not giving up top prospects and going all-in.<br /><br />I'm also not sure that the Nats actually refuse to add salary mid-season, or if that's just a symptom of their being unwilling to give up major pieces mid-season. Anon @8:26 is right: buying is more expensive mid-season than the off-season. And players with high salary that are worth trading for usually require you to give up big pieces in a trade. Hence, with a long-term over short-term organizational philosophy, not adding salary mid-season seems to be a consequence of that philosophy (not trading big when the price is high), not a direct philosophy in and of itself.<br /><br />Some people are talking like the Nats are like those good Rays teams, where they refused to spend money and were just generally good, going with their in-house guys every night. They aren't. We got Murphy this off-season, Scherzer the year before that, and just re-signed Strasburg. Rizzo makes, quite frankly, badass trades all the time. I think he just recognizes the trade deadline is a dangerous time when emotions cause us to overspend. I would've liked to add more at the deadline, too, but given the prices it just wasn't worth it.mike knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-2326031877092161802016-08-02T12:24:27.862-07:002016-08-02T12:24:27.862-07:00Bjd1207
That one throws me, too. One of them must...Bjd1207<br /><br />That one throws me, too. One of them must be a subterranean medical marijuana dispensary. SMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-54505372177599795242016-08-02T12:17:14.824-07:002016-08-02T12:17:14.824-07:002 pedantic bones to pick -
@Mythra - While I agre...2 pedantic bones to pick -<br /><br />@Mythra - While I agree with your sentiment overall, I don't think you'd get anyone to say 4 titles in a 25 year span isn't a success. The Red Wings are a success by any measure (titles or consistent winning) and of course that's what everyone's striving for.<br /><br />@Josh Higham - Nick Johnson wasn't terrible. He averaged a 136 OPS+ while he was here and in his first 2 years before the injury he was a 4+ WAR player<br /><br />Also the "storefront" bot check is easily my most hated bot check thus far. I'm not a robot!Bjd1207https://www.blogger.com/profile/08595153543505790679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-79287151877438436702016-08-02T12:08:45.624-07:002016-08-02T12:08:45.624-07:00I think the only thing that would have helped was ...I think the only thing that would have helped was a corner OF with Harper going to CF. It would have to have been an impact hitter - CarGo(debatable I know), McCutcheon (CF option, but no way Pitt trades him), etc. There is no way we were getting someone like that. Colorado is still in it and usually wants the farm for CarGo. Other impact hitters aren't getting traded. The deadline deal the Nats need is a trade of bryce (danny espinosa-like numbers in July) for Bryce or BRYCE. If that trade happens then everything else doesn't matter. Despite that they have the second best record in the league.Jaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-34402645352002192672016-08-02T11:58:49.246-07:002016-08-02T11:58:49.246-07:00JC - I'd say that you are discounting the vari...JC - I'd say that you are discounting the variability of year to year success. The assumption of future consistent success because of a good farm system and young players is too far for me to go, at least in baseball. (Basketball and Hockey have deep enough playoff systems for this strategy to pay off with far more frequency) I think the best you can hope for is what we've seen - year in, year out type results - unless you luck into something particularly special. <br /><br />I think you can get your consistent winner, if winner is "over .500, shot at playoffs" but I don't think you can get a consistent playoff team. Not this way. Well I'll walk that back a little. I think you can if you have a clear bottom of your division to provide easy wins and a little luck - that's basically how the Cardinals have done it. So many recent playoff teams with 91 wins or less. Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07738813756060133236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-75588755876976838662016-08-02T11:50:51.930-07:002016-08-02T11:50:51.930-07:00Buster Olney had some criticism for the Nats. Beca...Buster Olney had some criticism for the Nats. Because the Nats opted for Melancon over Miller or Chapman, we are at the top of his "Trade Deadline Losers List." Does this honestly bother anyone on this blog? That we "lost" the trade deadline? Is that what we're competing for?<br /><br />In the city of "See and Be-Seen," I would expect nothing less from some of our fans. Winning all spring and summer gets boring I guess. Reminds of when the Caps season rolls around - "wake me up when the playoffs are here." Please don't do that to the Nats. Enjoy this.Old Man Rivernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-74225750421606848782016-08-02T11:24:07.834-07:002016-08-02T11:24:07.834-07:00Honestly, I'm not sure that I'd count this...Honestly, I'm not sure that I'd count this trade deadline as a failure.<br /><br />We needed a closer. We got one--actually, we got one of the best ones in the National League. So long as Melancon doesn't run smack into a wall of immediate failure or injury, that seems pretty good. And we got him for a lot less than the Cubs paid for Chapman. Yeah, Chapman is a better pitcher, but not so much better that getting into that bidding war would have been worth it. (Plus, to the best of our knowledge, Melancon is not a domestic abuser, and that actually does count to me.) Miller would have been worth pursuing, but Giolito+ would have been a ridiculous price to pay. Looking at Cleveland's package, if we went with bulk it'd probably have been Robles, Fedde, and a couple of org fillers to match that, and I'm not sure that's something I'd be comfortable with today.<br /><br />Otherwise, what were our needs?<br /><br />Depending on Ross's injury status, one starting pitcher (Gio having turned in several good games running makes me more sanguine about this), probably a rental type given Ross/Giolito/Lopez all going to be fighting over the 5th slot in 2017. Hill is fighting injury issues of his own. Otherwise, not a lot was moving around. Do we like Liriano or Hutchison enough to pay for him? I certainly wouldn't want to move, say, Anthony Rendon to Tampa for Moore. The Phils didn't even move Hellickson, implying that whatever offers they got weren't to their liking. Drew Pomeranz isn't a rental and he cost the Red Sox a top pitching prospect (plus, he has the pre-2016 track record of Drew Pomeranz).<br /><br />As for the position players, we needed one stating slot filled by either a center fielder or first baseman. We didn't get that. Most of the guys who actually were moved at the deadline wouldn't have helped. We weren't going to bench Harper for Jay Bruce. Is Charlie Blackmon (who wasn't traded) better than Trea Turner? If so, is he better enough than Trea to give up prospects and money for him? Lucroy clearly didn't want to play 1B, if he's telling the truth about what he told Cleveland (and IIRC we're on his no-trade list, too).<br /><br />Otherwise, what do we need? Maybe a utility infielder to replace Drew due to injury, or a backup catcher?<br /><br />The only player actually traded to a buying team that I can say we actually "missed out on" was Steve Pearce, and yeah, he'd have been useful (apart from whether Dusty would willingly sit Zimmerman).<br /><br />But ultimately, we fixed our position of biggest need, and found an in-house solution (Turner) to our position of second-biggest need.<br /><br />So ultimately, I'm not sure that there was anything out there that fixed a position of needs at rational prices. And if that's the case, I don't see how we can call our deadline a failure.DezoPenguinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-88163417920298401732016-08-02T11:21:54.384-07:002016-08-02T11:21:54.384-07:00. . . and hockey!. . . and hockey!SMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9207681.post-37708239429726297942016-08-02T11:20:58.246-07:002016-08-02T11:20:58.246-07:00Rob Evans said...
"Personally, I want a WS. I...Rob Evans said...<br />"Personally, I want a WS. I could live with several years of sucking in order to get one. You play to win championships, everything else is just noise."<br /><br />Rizzo doesn't have that choice. No matter what he does, he can't guarantee a WS. Therein lies the problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com