And Fire Rizzo.
And Sell the Team
Look I've been an advocate for Rizzo, who can deal with the best of them, and is perfectly acceptable at IDing long range contract targets (some bomb, some work out - that's just how it goes). But sticking by Davey here isn't about results or Davey's proven track record with kids (which doesn't exist), it's about keeping a guy who doesn't complain about the roster at all and works quietly with whatever he's given. Rizzo bombed in his FA acquisitions this off-season but Davey won't complain. Nor will he eat the blame. That's the trade off.
As for the Lerners. I think Ted wanted to win, and fought through his more.. penurious tendencies (remember the "wait you want to Fed Ex this stuff?") to pay for an expensive team. I think Mark wants to win but Mark isn't solo in charge. It's Mark and siblings who are more inclined to sell than win. Without the backing of an owner who will spend you are completely at the whim of timing on getting a window open for a brief period of time (see Pirates, Pittsburgh). That's no way for a team to be run, hitting 3 year windows every generation.
This offseason will either cement these feelings or prove them wrong, but they aren't things I've said before and I don't mean them lightly. Fix what's broken or stop being in charge.
14 comments:
If the Nats get swept, at home, by the literally-on-pace-to-shatter-the-worst-record-in-history Rockies, to cap off this losing streak, and Davey isn't fired immediately, then I'm with you. Between the team's performance, the lack of player development in the major leagues, the track record when the roster isn't chock full of superstars (heck, that 2019 championship team grossly underperformed based on its roster quality given that awful first month and a half), there is nothing to recommend this man. And if Rizzo isn't willing to make that change, then despite his successes (he *does* have a good track record overall of quality FA signings and trades, though his bullpen-building is execrable and the building of systems for successful player-development work in the minors lousy) he needs to go as well. And if ownership won't help fix the team, then they need to sell it to someone who will. (Though there's always the risk of ending up with a Nutting instead of a Cohen or Guggenheim.)
On balance, I keep Rizzo. But there’s a solid case to be made that he should go. The ENORMOUS problems with replacing him: (1) do you think the Lerner family is capable of identifying a better GM; and (2) do you think the Lerner family is capable of convincing (with dollars and words) the better-than-Rizzo candidate to take the job?
For me, the answer is a RESOUNDING “no.” Until the Lerners sell the team, I’d predict a Lerner-picked GM does worse, not better.
Unfortunately I doubt the current Lerner family ownership lacks the necessary interest to move on from Davey, and especially Rizzo. Maybe in the offseason, but it would be huge surprise for them to make a dramatic in-season move- though it certainly is warranted
Rizzo lavished unwavering support on DM after the Marlins sweep. Looks like the wagons have circled. He'll look pretty hypocritical if he sticks a fork in now. But something has to give soon.
@Nattydread. I am inclined to agree, but baseball can be odd that way. You are expected to express 100% support right up to moment of the announcement of a change. Et tu, Juan (Soto)? Also, what part of Rizzo's job description, salary, or bonus is affected by whether the fans think he is a hypocrite?
Rizzo seems to feel that being player-friendly is the key virtue of a manager. A more authoritarian manager who might demand more accountability might be just the ticket for the Nats. Also, holding Martinez accountable seems to be the right message for the troops--failure sticks to everybody, no exceptions.
Stop with the Davey hate, literally who do you see taking over in his absence? Gerardo Parra? Bring back Davey Baker or Davey Johnson? You think Davey Roberts is gonna leave the Dodgers to coach us? There aren't even any more Davey's to manage, it's gonna be Baby Shark or Matt Williams 2.0, maybe even Matt Williams 1.0
Davey is the man, he brought home a ring. We tolerate his potential substance abuse issues and suspected gambling habits because he earned it.
Seriously though, who do you imagine taking the job after you fire him? Nobody wants the job, there isn't anyone available except for Gerardo Parra.
Once ownership flips make Zim an offer he can't refuse, until then support Davey Martinez.
Very sad to see elements of our fan base turn on the most decorated manager in franchise history. The Lehners have refused to take on money after the ridiculous Strasbourg signing, and nobody really knows what Rizzo has been doing with the farm system. Must be a deep game of 6D chess. But hey I get it we're mad so let's ditch the only iconic figure this team still has on payroll - it's sad and Davey deserves more
(1) As the Clint Eastwood character in Unforgiven once said, “deserve’s got nothing to do with it; (2) whatever Davey “deserved” for winning a title six years ago, he’s already received; (3) he indeed “deserves” to lose his job right now because he has performed poorly at it for years
Davey has been great - he is the steady hand at the wheel.
If you are insinuating that in some way Davey is at fault for fire saling the team, signing Strass, treating the team like the family piggy bank, and years of poor draft picks, then I really don't understand your logic. I understand that the tradition is for the manager to fall on his sword, but you choose whether you support the cause of justice or injustice in this life. It is not Davey who should commit seppuku today.
Davey is at fault for the team performing below its talent level, which has happened consistently for years. What precise evidence can you point to since 2019 that demonstrates Davey is anything other than a shitty manager? Please be more specific than “steady hand”; from my vantage point, the only thing that’s been steady is his poor performance.
Davey Johnson and Dusty Baker are both people who have managed the Nats and are more decorated managers than Davey Martinez, who’s made the playoffs just once in nine seasons. Was missing the playoffs in ‘18 with a stacked roster good managing?
I won't post links for claims regarding the strass signing and subsequent refusal of ownership to invest in the team, or the sell off of talent that occurred following 2019 - these were widely reported and I assume as fans you aren't questioning such obvious claims.
I will point to our preseason farm rankings as evidence of poor management by Rizzo - which were at #13 preseason and topped around #10. Even these mediocre results for a team that sucked for 5 seasons don't tell the full story of the failure to develop pitching or impact hitting at key defensive positions (with the exception of Abrams). See link for ratings:
https://www.mlb.com/news/farm-system-rankings-2025-preseason
I can provide additional links that discuss the Lerner's mismanagement of the team and failure to provide a vision for success, but I assume as fans you know about the Lerners.
I would like to see evidence that Davey depressed wins with the shitty teams he was given, a stat that the fan base seems to take as canon despite my not seeing any evidence for this assumption.
Finally, while it is true that Baker and Johnson were decorated, their laurels were earned with other clubs and their history as nats managers is largely a story of wasted potential.
So, turning the topic to Rizzo. They said a few years ago that the player-development had to improve. No kidding. Well, it has - look at the success of non-first-rounders, like Parker, Irvin, Lord, Lile, Sykora. Sure, it's not enough, but I don't personally know how to say what is.
As for last year's signings, I guess that was just the budget he had. Given the shopping list, I don't know that he could have done much better. Maybe he should have gone whole-ass on a $18M DH or SP, instead of half-assing two positions that have flopped. It's a shame that the RP money went to guys who ended up getting ditched -- he could have stayed with in-house bad and put the money towards a better DH.
Anyway, the two questions you have to ask (but nobody in the talk-o-sphere does) are "what, specifically, do I want to see done better" and "who wants the job". Given the Lerners' obvious strangling of the payroll , those are important questions without obvious answers.
If the Lerners don't want to invest, the franchise is an asset that is declining in value. Sell now and cut your losses.
Anon 12:21–the entire content of your post is: “The Lerners are bad, Rizzo is bad.” These are not arguments that Davey Martinez is good at his job. What are those arguments?
Do you think the Nats’ roster is as bad as the Marlins? I do not, yet the two clubs occupy the same spot in the standings. The Nats got swept by the Marlins at home and may get swept by the Rockies in four games at home. The team should be performing better than it is. When that is the problem, the buck stops at the field manager. Fire him yesterday.
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